TUNJI BALOGUN:
THE HITS INTERVIEW

After successful A&R stints at Interscope and RCA, where he stewarded projects from the likes of Doja Cat, Bryson Tiller, H.E.R., Wizkid and Normani, Tunji Balogun was tapped by UMG poobah Lucian Grainge in late 2021 to lead Def Jam Recordings. The past years for the iconic hip-hop label have been choppy, marked by C-suite turnover, roster attrition and prolonged absences (Kanye West, Rihanna, Justin Bieber) and, most recently, a corporate restructuring. Balogun is tasked with honoring the legacy of Def Jam, which celebrates its 40th birthday this year, while moving the label forward via breakout R&B artists like Muni Long, Coco Jones and Fridayy and global acts such as Elmiene and ODUMODUBLVCK.

“That’s the challenge,” he acknowledges. “But also the exciting part, the opportunity to breathe new life into something that I not only care about, but that is culturally important. It’s an institution of Black music.”

Let’s start from the beginning. You’re based in L.A. Did you grow up on the West Coast?

I grew up in the Bay Area and in Nigeria. My parents moved to the States in 1980. I was born in
Sacramento because my dad went to UC Davis, and then we moved back to Nigeria when I was three, then moved back to the East Bay when I was seven or eight. My dad was a voracious music listener. He loved Motown, R&B and soul music and also played a lot of Nigerian music.

Then I went to boarding school in Massachusetts, because Nigerian parents love boarding schools. The most important thing in a Nigerian household is education. Boarding school was a culture shock. I was definitely a fish out of water. But it taught me how to network with any type of person, and I met kids who were listening to music that I never would have listened to otherwise. Most of the other Black kids at Deerfield were from New York. When I was in the Bay Area, I was listening to West Coast rap. When I went to Deerfield, I met kids who were listening to Wu-Tang, Nas and JAY-Z.

And that was when I really started listening to lyrics. That’s, like, when I put on my backpack and became a nerd. I still am a nerd. I’m a cool-ass nerd [laughs], but I’m definitely a music nerd, especially with Black music.

I was also in high school when I started writing lyrics and rapping.

What was your rap handle?

Just Tunji. That’s a unique enough name, right? Even now, some people don’t know my last name. A lot of people just know me as Tunji.

And what about college?

I went to Pomona College, outside L.A.. I majored in Black Studies and Media Studies, but really what I did in college was listen to more music and make music. I was one of those kids who was downloading everything because I didn’t have money to go buy albums. I was part of the whole Napster generation. I had all of them: Napster, Limewire, Kazaa, mIRC. I’m surprised I didn’t get hit with a lawsuit.

Once I did have enough money to buy CDs, I became the booklet kid, looking at the credits, trying to decipher who the people were behind the scenes: Who’s this mixer guy who touches everything? This was all part of the foundation that led to me becoming an A&R leader. You know, I thought I was going to be an artist. But all those experiences led me to A&R.

What was your first gig in the industry?

During college I interned at Warner Bros., but my first paid gig was as a catalog manager at a ringtone company called Def Jam Mobile. It was owned by American Greetings. So when you went into your phone to buy ringtones and got onto the little landing page, I was the one curating that.

Who have been some of your mentors along the way?

Na’im Ali McNair is one of the first people who believed in me. Top Dawg had time for me and gave me opportunities. Shawn “Tubby” Holiday, who I worked for at Interscope starting in 2010. John Janick, who promoted me to an actual A&R role at Interscope in 2013. And eventually Peter Edge and Keith Naftaly at RCA.

In your early Interscope days, did you get much time with Jimmy Iovine?

A little. I have a couple of good stories. I kind of came up in the underground rap scene, and I got to know Macklemore. Great guy. When he started to break at the end of 2012 as an indie artist, Jimmy was very curious about him and was like, “Who the fuck is this guy? How do we not know about him?” So I was able to set up a meeting with Jimmy, John and Macklemore. Knowing that Macklemore would never sign a deal, but just the fact that I was able to get him into the room, Jimmy was like, what’s going on with this kid?

The other thing with Jimmy—and this is so random—is that the first time I got noticed for something at Interscope involved Scotty McCreery, who’d won American Idol. One night, about a year before he won Idol, I was at Tubby’s house. And this producer, Lil’ Ronnie, came over and was playing demos, and he played a country song. I’ve never worked in country. I was like, wow, that’s a good song, but I figured I would never hear it again. Then, months later, McCreery wins, and I ended up ringing Ronnie: “Yo, what’s up with that song?” Because there was a label-wide search for music for this guy, and Interscope wasn’t really doing country. I sent the song to Dave Rene, who was Jimmy’s music guy, and “I Love You This Big” became McCreery’s first single. That helped get me on Jimmy’s radar as well.

How did Peter and Keith figure into your career?

They understood the R&B stuff, the left-of-center stuff, the weird hip-hop stuff that I liked. And they just were like, go for it. I got lucky because the first thing I signed was Bryson Tiller, and that immediately blew up. They believed in me, they empowered me. I had a JV label at RCA [Keep Cool] after a while. Peter’s a music guy first. It’s always about the creative for him.

What was the interview process like for the Def Jam gig?

There wasn’t really an interview process. I’d left Interscope, gone to Sony and went on a run. I was lucky enough to have had tremendous success at RCA. So Lucian was aware of the work. I’d had a couple of meetings with him before the meeting. But I didn’t know that he thought that I could do this job. There were a few other roles at Universal that I thought he might bring up. Joie Manda had just left Interscope, I thought maybe he was going to offer that. So when he brought up the Def Jam job, I was like, “Oh shit, for real? Okay, let me think about it.” It was a tough decision, because I was really loving the work I was doing at RCA. I had my own label, and a ton of artists who were doing really well. But the opportunity to help refresh such an iconic label, such an iconic brand, really speaks to me. It’s the dream job.

Still, in recent years, Def Jam has undergone a lot of turnover at the top and an erosion of market share. What do you think went amiss?

With all due respect to everyone who sat in the seat and did the job, I come from Interscope under Jimmy and then John, and RCA under Peter. I’m a student of seeing a company that’s led by a creative vision. If I could call out anything that maybe changes the energy, it’s that Def Jam hadn’t been led by a creative for a while, someone who could reach into the artist community and speak to artists on their level. That’s not to say that the people who had the job before me couldn’t do it, but it’s more that I live and breathe that. Because this job is really about bringing in new talent and new artists. Obviously honoring and sustaining the legacy, but also bringing in new pieces for the next 40 years of the label. For me, that’s the opportunity. I know how to identify and cultivate new talent. That’s the thing that I’m most passionate about. So my view is that as long as I have the space and the time to develop and cultivate new talent, I can do this.

Also, there aren’t a lot of Black people that get an opportunity like this. And particularly not a lot of young Black people. This is much bigger than just me and my career. Because if this is successful, it changes who gets the next call, right? It’s extremely important that representation is felt at all levels, from the intern to the CEO. And not just in creative roles, but in logistical, functional roles as well. Representation behind the scenes is crucial. Our voices need to be in the room. So I’m trying to do my part to carry that, and to create opportunities for the next generation of executives. Because this is not an easy industry to break into. And it’s important for people with power to create opportunities for that next generation, not only because it’s the right thing to do, but because it’s the way that you remain connected to the culture.

I just became a dad. I’m not outside the way I was 10 years ago. I have to have a network of people who have more time than me. I want Def Jam to be a reflection of the culture. I want it to be really diverse. I want the people whose voices traditionally have the lowest volume to have a loud voice in the room.

When you got the gig, did you hear from any of the former CEOs?

I already had good relationships with Paul Rosenberg and Jeff Harleston, so I heard from them. Going back to the mentor question, Jeff has been one of my mentors, for sure. I didn’t know Steve Bartels, so I reached out to him, and we had a good conversation.

What about the OGs? Rick Rubin, Russell Simmons, Lyor Cohen?

Yeah, they all reached out to me. I’ve known Russell since Def Jam Mobile. Same with Kevin Liles.

You obviously know JAY-Z...

No, I don’t.

Really?

I’m his biggest fan. I’ve met him. I’ve been around him. But I don’t have a relationship with him. And I haven’t heard from him. Give me a call, HOV!

Not long ago I interviewed Warner’s Tom Corson and Aaron Bay-Schuck, and they said that when they got hired by Max Lousada, they mapped out a five-year plan. Is that the kind of runway that you’re more or less operating on?

Yes. I talked to Lucian about a five-year plan. And even since the restructure, working with Monte Lipman and the team at Republic, it’s still the same five-year plan. I’m an artist-development person at my core. We’re in an era where everyone is looking at the same data. But I’m always going to go after artists who make me feel like a fan again. And sometimes those artists take time to break. I learned that at RCA. RCA is a very patient label. H.E.R. was signed when she was 13 years old. And they allowed her to grow and figure out who she was. Doja Cat is another. I met her in 2013, when she started bubbling on SoundCloud. She didn’t break for five, six years. Being at RCA gave me that perspective of, if you find something amazing, give them the space and the grace so that they can step into their greatness.

Let’s talk about the restructuring in day-to-day terms. When it comes to, say, Coco Jones’ “Here We Go,” who’s working it from the Def Jam side? Who’s working it from the REPUBLIC CORPS side?

Creative, marketing, digital, those are still native to Def Jam. Radio promotion, publicity and international are now shared, but we always shared certain functions with Republic and Island, like business affairs, legal, clearances. The relationship was always strong. You know, I started talking to Monte the minute I got into UMG. I always had a friendly relationship with him and Avery [Lipman]. And the Island guys, Imran [Majid] and Justin [Eshak], were Universal guys who went to Sony and we all came back at the same time. We were all really good friends. Same with the Mercury guys. Tyler [Arnold] is a good friend, and I’ve known Ben [Adelson] forever. So, the transition has been pretty seamless.

What have been the pain points of the restructuring?

The pain point is having to let go a lot of great people, people who worked hard and who cared deeply for the artists. It’s never easy to do that.

And what’s a success you can point to since the restructuring that maybe wouldn’t have happened prior?

I think the best example is the Muni Long song, “Made for Me.” It’s our biggest song of the year. Our Def Jam Urban radio team, led by Natina Nimene, started working it at the end of last year at R&B radio, then took it to Urban Mainstream and it went to #1 in both formats. Then Gary Spangler’s team took it to Rhythm and it went #1 there. Now they’re working it at Top 40.

And going back to my love of lyrics and nerdy obsession with songcraft, Muni is one of the most talented—I won’t even call her a songwriter. She’s like a magician, the way that she reflects her life through the music.

So what’s the next step for her?

A classic album. She has a core fanbase that loves the songs. But there’s a more casual fan that she needs to connect with. She’s doing this Chris Brown tour now, which will help tremendously. Her album will come this fall. It’s really amazing.

Any sign of new music from Bieber?

He’s always working on music. He’s an amazing artist. I think he’s at a point in his career where he’s sort of stepping back and reassessing. When he comes back with something new, it’ll be really special. And it’ll show his growth. He’s experiencing some new stuff in his personal life. And all of that will be reflected in this new music. But it’s on his terms, when he’s ready.

Tell me about the next six to 12 months. What are you excited about?

There’s Muni, which I talked about. There’s Fridayy. He’s an amazing example of what I’m trying to do at Def Jam. He’s a Haitian American from Philadelphia. He’s an R&B act at his core, but his music incorporates damn near every element of the patchwork of Black music globally. You’ll hear gospel in the way he arranges his vocals. He incorporates dancehall rhythms; he incorporates Afrobeats rhythms. He collaborates with Afrobeats artists, dancehall artists, R&B artists, hip-hop artists. He has such a powerful voice. He’s going to be a superstar. All of the ingredients that I’ve seen in artists I’ve worked with who became superstars are present with Fridayy.

There’s a Big Sean album coming, his first in four years. It’s him stepping into the best version of himself. We’ll have new Alessia Cara in the fall. As an A&R, I was really excited to work with her when I came in. I’ve been working on it with [Sr. Director of A&R and Marketing] Caitlin Harriford on our team. I know I’ve said this a lot, but I think Alessia is sitting on her best album. It’s a step forward. And then we’re gonna go back to where it all started with LL COOL J, who has a new album coming in September, produced by Q-Tip. LL is the first artist who blew up on the label, so it just ties together the whole Def Jam story. And he’s still hungry, like it’s his first project. He’s just a ball of energy. And we’ll have a Coco Jones album in the fall. Grammy winner, super talent, superwoman. Oh, and we can talk about this, since they already did: We’ll have a new Clipse album this year.

What are some of the Def Jam 40 plans that you can share?

We’re doing a bunch of stuff. We’re doing a lot of vinyl reissues celebrating the catalog, we’re doing a doing a boxed set with Vinyl Me, Please. There was a New York City declaration of Def Jam Day, and now there’s been a New York State declaration. And this LL album is a central piece. I always tell people, if we’re the Disney of hip-hop, he’s the Mickey Mouse.

Most of all, there’s just a lot of great music, from the legacy acts, the current stars and the next generation of stars.